Q. Picked up a CAMPRO recently. Just interested in putting it on display beside the MIDAS but, while in the case of the MIDAS I obtained an Owners Manual etc., for this CAMPRO I have nothing! If you have anything on it, would appreciate your input or if you can refer me to another source. I'd like to know what cartridge/magazine/charger was used; what voltage was used to the lamp and how the unit was set up as a projector?
(Before I even had a chance to reply, a further email followed..)
Q. Sorry, sorry. Should have read your extensive website first! You've probably answered all of my questions.Have now just downloaded a hard copy to study, so I'll re-phrase my request.......if you have any 'new data' not yet published, I'd appreciate that,otherwise, I'll read all and if I have questions will come back to you.A. What can I say? Actually, I find myself a bit like a gramophone record sometimes, repeatedly telling people "There's a lot of info AND PICTURES! on my website."'
Q. You know what ?, I think you need an INDEX at the start of your comprehensive website for stupid people like me (!) so that the contents will POP OUT AT US before we start asking 'silly questions'. Sorry again.
A. There is a Projector Index and a Contents page, nestling next to each other at the top of the more traditional list of main sections on the Home Page. I think I should take your spade away before you dig yourself any deeper .Q. All read, understood and the little CAMPRO is alive and well and up and running, even the lamp illuminates brightly! Can't really say if I'll ever put it to use but it was fun getting it to operate. One question, when you have the time, did you ever source the little 'Projector Attachment' or establish what in fact it was ? Was it ONLY for the older version or for MKI and MKII
A. At last! You have found a small hole in my defences! No, I never found out anything about the attachment. Mind you, I never tried. A task worthy of your attention, perhaps? If you thought cruel before, how about this? I thought our recent exchange would make a splendid addition to Aunt Em's column. How much is it worth to anonymise it?
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Q. At some point I will need to pick up a 17,5 sound projector that won't destroy the films. I actually have a Natan, which I am told is the French version of the Home Talkie, but you have basically made me terrified to ever run film through it, for reasons you explained elsewhere. Because of such I have been hoping to acquire one of the Pathé Rural, or Super Rurals that came later and appear to be much gentler on the films....For some reason I was under the impression you had a few of these do you not? Perhaps I just assume you have a few of everything that you are hoarding away to taunt people like me when we start longing for something.
A. As for care of films and risk of damage using a Home Talkie, I have made various transfers to Video of 17.5 films incl Christus, Destiny, Sleepless Nights, 3 Men in a Boat and The Avenger (actually a now sadly deceased friend did the recording). All these used the Home talkie. And Lorna Doone. So, basically, the HT is fine as long as two conditions are met. First, the film must be in full repair with no uncorrected faults or damage and second, you have to thread it right. The problem is that both feed and take-up use not only the same sprocket but also the same arm with rollers for holding the film onto said sprocket. It is very easy to allow the film to slip a bit under the sprocket (ie for the pre-gate loop) when threading over the top (ie for the post-gate-and-sound-head loop.) This can mean the film is not properly engaged with the sprocket teeth and so won't be fed through. As there is no pre-gate loop to speak of, damage is instant if a problem occurs. Bear in mind, tho', that the Talkie had a few years of active commercial life and that, despite abuse by many loonies in the intervening period, a great many films still survive.
However, let me give you the full story. My holdings of 17.5 machines are as follows.
2 x Rural silent machines, known as the Rex in the UK. They use the Vox lamp. They also have only 500' spool arms,tho' the 1000' - 1600' arms from sound machines also fit.
5 x Rural Sonore machines, sadly all converted to 16mm, and one being a spares machine only. I have one of them (pictured) up and running as a 16mm projector. It is just a Rural silent with an extra "layer" added, carrying the sound unit and the capacitor for the constant speed motor. Two of them need a lot of work.
4 x Home Talkie machines. I also have two very battered Natan mechanisms - no base.
2 x Super Rural machines. These are both 17.5. One was much mutilated by its last owner, but now works. The second is in bits.
1 x 16mm Type 45 (?), which is a Super Rural on a different base and with a separate amplifier, only ever made in 16mm.
In addition to these, I have a much-modified Gebescope Model A converted to 17.5 by the late John Cunningham. It has the advantage of an intermittent sprocket instead of a claw. And finally, a GB L516 converted to 16mm, also by John.
Deciding on which projector is a right can of worms. The only machine found, and that rarely, in the UK is the Home Talkie. The Rex was hardly ever advertised and is vanishingly rare. The Rural Sonore was never introduced here. The Super Rural was advertised, but what with war and the end of 17.5 not long before, it is again vanishingly rare. My second machine (and the Type 45) definitely came from France and the other did also, I believe. I have never come across a machine actually sold officially in the UK.
In my view, the Rural and Rural Sonore are the best. They have a straight film path of conventional type, so there are adequate-size loops. I have doubts about certain aspects of the sound set-up, because of the risk of scratching on the separate drum where the sound is read, the flywheel appearing rather later in the film path. Because so many were converted to 16mm on the orders of the Germans in 1941, genuine 17.5 Rural Sonores are pretty rare.
I think the Rural and the Sonore are brilliant pieces of design, very well suited to their expected working environment which was essentially commercial and not domestic, and to the way Pathé provided services to users. The main base is solid and the machine is in large measure of modular construction. The lamp and motor resistance and controls of the Rural are all on a single unit that can be easily removed without any special skill or tool. The lamphouse is a unit, which has a separate plug into the control unit, as does the motor, which can be removed by undoing a single knob. And the ease with which the machine lent itself to conversion to sound is, I think, a tribute to the original design. These machines were ideal for the rough and tumble of transport and ad hoc set-up in various halls and other venues, but usable by almost anyone. The 500' spool arms on the original Rural are an interesting feature. Unless one had two machines, which may have been beyond the means of many, particularly as it might well need a second operator, too. I nonetheless regarded a film show with regular interruptions as something decidedly peculiar, until it was pointed out to me that early film shows often did the same and, of course, today we happily(?) cope with advertising breaks.
I have thought long and hard about converting my 16mm Rural Sonores back to 17.5mm. The sprockets are straightforward enough, but the sound presents more problems and the claw and cam are a really major issue. I have had a replacement up-and-down cam made which will, I hope, suit 17.5mm. It cost £100 some years ago.
These two pix show the cam/shutter assembly. In the left pic, top is the up-and-down cam, next the in-and-out cam and bottom is the shutter. The two cams are basically just larger versions of those in the Baby projector. It seems to me that duplicating the in-and-out cam with the necessary modifications to suit 17.5 is a project I can't even understand, let alone complete. You can't use the original as the 17.5 claw is about 10mm to the left of the 16mm one; it would not ride on the 16mm in and out cam. I have come to the conclusion that the only sensible way forward is to run 17.5 back to front and use a mirror or prism to reverse the image. This greatly simplifies both the cam problem and the sound side. You still have to have the up-and-down cam made, and sprockets (I happened to have some) and guide rollers etc, but it seems to me more achievable - as long as the greater throw of the up-and-down cam does not make the claw lift off the in-and-out cam......
I I also have a problem with the Super Rural - see the next two pix.
Not only is the top loop very tight, but the lower loop has very little space to operate in and, unless constrained in some way, the loop has a tendency to flip forward onto the sprocket and the film as it runs up to the sprocket after leaving the sound head.
In pic 2, there appears to be a pin to stop this, which rather tends to undermine the whole purpose of a loop, by in effect making it much shorter. However, this is not all. Try as I may, I cannot get the loop long enough to give a sound/picture separation any bigger than 19/20 frames, ie like 35mm. On a Home Talkie, I cannot get below 26 frames. I can't see what I'm doing wrong and I must be wrong 'cos I can't imagine this being deliberate. Surely 7/24ths of a second out of sync would be noticeable? I have acquired an electronic delay unit which would deal with this, but these were not available back in 1938! I wonder if there would be an issue with 16....